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Advanced “Light Flicker in Video” Education

Photo Moment - April 05, 2019

Avoiding flicker while shooting high speed (slow motion) video under artificial lighting, or shooting in a foreign country can be a challenge. I knew HOW, but not WHY. Now I know why, and I want to share with you.

This video was shot on the LUMIX S1 with the 50mm f/1.4 lens wide open. Because I know someone will ask ;-)

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This show was fully scripted and read off a teleprompter, so this script is pretty darn accurate!

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What do you think? Did you learn anything new? I'd love to hear what you thought of this video! This was a new approach for me.
Brilliantly explained Joseph. And your graphics add an extra element to the topic. You clearly know what you're talking about and are a true pro. Thank you so much for this amazing video.
@Rudy Kevin I would suggest Flixzone. Just search on google for it =)
Hi Joseph, i tried to shoot some Slow Motion with my GH5 today (Color in Water etc..)
Indoor Light (LED) / FHD 180fps / 180d Shutter Angle : FLICKERING nonstop :-(((((
is there ANY chance to get indoor footage with 180fps without flickering?
😳
What the... math is for nerds dude. I didn't come to your channel to make my head hurt. I just wanna be able to shoot naked ladies. :) If you weren't so beautiful, yourself, I would have turned off the video. xD
I'd appreciate any advice on this dilemma: I'm shooting with stage lights soon and NONE of the standard shutter speeds neutralise the banding. Thank god my FX30 has a variable shutter setting - only when I use shutter speed 1/53 - yes, *53*, does the banding disappear. My Sony A6400 does NOT have this option, I'm stuck with standard shutter speeds, NONE of them eliminate the banding. Is there ANY way to get a more precise shutter speed on the A6400? I'm in Australia - unbelievable, shooting at 1/50 resulted in banding. I've checked via NTSC as well as PAL but I'm aware that frame rate is not the problem, it's shutter speed (and my NTSC / PAL tests proved this, the banding was exactly the same in each case - but my A6400 has no way of setting a shutter speed of 53). Thanks...
@BendeHoedt right on. There are techniques in post for reducing flicker as well. I’d watch those first and maybe run some tests with your test footage. Good luck!
@@photojoseph Yep! I was going to add to my post "please don't tell me the obvious thing which is to buy another FX30"... I can't magic up the money - or the associated rig - in time... but y'know, I've revisited my test video and I think if I set the a6400 up as a medium-wide shot (static), banding is going to be hopefully very minimal. It's only a real problem when I am close up on anything on that stage. I'm also going to re-test all of this with the support band first, so I have maybe some wiggle room for problem solving. Thanks though - appreciate the response!
Without syncroscan (that ability to adjust shutter angle/speed precisely), you’re out of luck. Most likely the reason you’re shorting at that weird 1/53 is they’re using dimmers on the lights. I’d be concerned that this will change on show day. My advice is to buy or rent another FX30.
Yes except for some reason I was still getting rolling bars at my last venue even with 60hz power, 30fps and 1/30. First time in a very long time it's been a issue. Something more must have been going on with the lights they were using or dimmer switch.
Dimmers mess up everything!
I shot at 30 & 60 fps guitar/singing. Flicker occurred on my accent flood lights. New apartment, and no issue when recording from webcam.
Man, this video is the best answer to my problems! Well done! Thanks for the insight
Record any light in an area with your phone in slow motion. If you see the light flickering in slow motion, you need to get rid of that light.
Love hearing that!!
Very Informative Video! Learnt a lot. Earned a new subscriber.
Welcome aboard!
Coming to this 4 years after it was produced. An excellent explanation that just make all the absolute sense. THANK YOU
Awesome, and thank you!
Brilliant video (came here from Twitter or X or whatever it's called this week) ;)
Awesome thanks! You must follow Marc then 😄
I just experienced this after shooting a video in a boxing gym where I used the available light. I shot this scene in 120 fps with 180°, was it because of the AC light in the gym that caused this banding flickering, I almost cried when I got home and review my footage lol
You’re in a 60Hz or 50Hz region? 120p in 60Hz should be fine at any shutter angle. 50Hz though, forget it. Use the calculator. https://www.red.com/tools
great job bro. the red website is great. first comment. have been watching on cocasion for years now
I get the 50/60hz fix but what about 400hz? At 24/25 frames what should my shutter speed be? Its aircraft cabin lighting that flickers when I filmed recently
Aircraft lighting flickers at 400Hz?! That’s wild. Trial and error with a camera that can do syncroscan is probably necessary. Also I doubt that the frequency is consistent. I’d imagine that the Hz changes as the engines rev up or down. Watch this video too if you haven’t already: https://youtu.be/1qcOAOK8_eY?si=vz4X4gk18BoHl1-F
Nobody ever experienced flicker with old school hot lights like Mole Richardson or Lowel. Fluorescents, on the other hand, were a totally different story. Why do purpose built lighting for filmmaking cost so much? Because they contain custom built high frequency ballasts. This was the principle behind Kinoflo (along with custom phosphor formulations), and this is standard for all LED lighting for filmmakers. This is also why DIY solutions built from off the shelf components sourced at home centers are a waste of time for filmmaking, and why sources made for the construction industry, no thought of camera sensor scanning frequency interactions, are also no good.
Awesome! But I'm also getting flickering whilst panning with my S1 in sunlight (on a tripod with IBIS OFF) - it varies by frame rate and by picture setting, with V-log by far the worst. Any ideas?
@@fredabery3816 it’s not a camera issue. Shoot something at 60p and see if you still see it. If not, then it’s a frame-rate / fast pan issue. If so, then there’s something else going on; let me know.
@@photojoseph Thanks, Joseph for the blisteringly quick reply!- I was shooting mostly at higher resolutions- 5.4k and above, and at 25 and 50fps (I'm in Vietnam)180 Degs shutter. I GG'd it yesterday and found an earlier vid of yours talking about a firmware update for the S1 which was supposed to address this back in 2020 or 21... I thought I'd gotten all my ducks in a row, but still seeing it - especially when panning across building and things with high contrast repeating patterns. Maybe it's time to update to the S5II?
You can’t get the kind of flicker I’m talking about here with sunlight, so that’s something else. Judder? Judder is the stuttering you see when panning too fast at a low framerate. If you’re shooting 24p and panning quickly, you’ll see it more than you would at 60.
Mind blown. Amazing video. THANK YOU
Thanks!!
too much fractions and math. DEAD. In food. I dont want to understand how Fine dining works. I just want to know what's in front of me being told straight up hahahah
Hahahaa some people actually want lots of info so go laugh at someone else.
The statement of only having to get either shutter angle and frame rate right to resolve flicker in video is Wrong! Technically, only the shutter speed and the resulting exposure time of the image sensor matters. Shutter angle and frame rate are indirectly related to shutter speed and exposure time. Thanks me later.
Good morning from the UK. Thank you for this video. I have a question please. To your knowledge, how to Hollywood movies avoid these flickers as they clearly use artificial light in many instances. For example, the John Wick movies 'on set' or the movie 'Nobody' where there's slow motion action on the bus. These all use artificial light. I have two cameras, Sony A74 and A7s3 and sometimes come up against challenges with artificial light sources. Thanks and hopefully you can answer. Lee
I explain that in this video — lots and lots of light. Also DC instead of AC. Also, don’t disregard VFX. Also, it’s Hollywood, so there’s probably some secret sauce involved!
Thank you for this. I have a shoot in one day and I want to record in 24fps. I’m from Europe so 50hz. I also will need to shoot in high-framerates such as 120fps. The red website is saying there is no safe shutter angle for 120fps in 50hz. Should I instead take 96fps with 345 shutter angle? Is 96 good looking / reliable in 50hz region with 345 shutter angle?

I would appreciate the answer!
@@photojoseph won’t 96 fps with a shutter angle of 345.6 look way too blurry? I just noticed that my 6k pro doesn’t offer 96 fps for the highest sensor resolution. It only goes up to 50 or 48. Would you rather choose 48 fps and highest sensor quality or lower quality with cropped sensor and higher fps?

Thank you for the quick answer!
If you don’t have a flicker then it’s good looking. “Good” is arbitrary. Go as high fps as you can without flicker. The math doesn’t lie; follow the red chart.
?
SAVED.THANK YOU
😀
It was so many numbers but I can say I got flicker this weekend. I was on a horse competition and shooted 120fps with shuttercount at 1/250 and it was not so fun so I dropped the shutter to 1/125, it got a bit better but not so much. I had 50hz to..My goall with the film to be able to make it slowmo without losing to much quality...How had you done in my situation? I am new to premium pro too so I don't know how to edit it either...:(
Were you in a 60Hz or 50Hz region? You said you “had 50Hz” but I don’t know if that means you were in 50Hz or you set the camera to it.
This is very informational. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Subscribed
Thanks 🙏🏻
right im in the uk so my nikon d850 in slow motion 4× should be 50 or 100 shutter speed under street lights , il have a play tonight 😊 cheers buddy (slow mo minimum is 25 fps ) il put that to my.left side of my brain for now , concentrate on shutter speed 😕
Very well made but i am extremely sleep deprived and i didn't quite catch whether you covered this one issue: Basically, i get really bad flicker when i reduce the Exposure. Is there an easy way to solve this? With normal exposure the lighting is too overwhelming and blinding, but with perfect exposure i get terrible flickering.
You gotta rewatch the video. It’s all about adjusting shutter speed/angle which adjusts exposure
Needlessly complicated…
Purposefully in depth
So glad there's a solution, since I'm about to purchase some LED spotlights for Youtube videos. Thank you so much for this video, I was about to scrap my whole lighting design! I wanted to ask a question though - when dimming 220V AC LED GU10 bulbs, do you expect the math behind the cycles to change? Would it still fluctuate at 50 Hz? I'm trying to work around any possible issues by getting the best dimmer and bulbs I can afford, but dimming them was part of my plan, as 10W spots are quite focused and bright.
If you’re using conventional dimmers then all bets are off. I believe conventional dimmers work by altering the cycle. Professional lights dim differently. If you’re talking about building a set using off the shelf lights, I’d advise that you put that money into video lighting systems. There are thousands of affordable options these days. Just look on Amazon.
And I got this RBG bulbs that flicker no matter what :D. But their flicker is visible as moving bands across the frame. I can easily remove this in post using deflicker in Resolve, but it's still annoying.
@@photojoseph I know. But I was just really surprised that recording 25p with 1/50 SS in 50Hz location gives some flicker. But I guess these bulbs got some internal electronics that creates flicker with different frequency than 50Hz (or it's multiciplity). And actually this can be removed easily with deflicher SFX in Davinci, not a big deal, although this SFX is resource hungry so for longer videos it will be quite annoying.
Guess I have to start using my BMPCC6k to record tiktoks ;).
@@JoATTech ahhh there’s the problem. You need a camera with synchro scan and shutter angle 😉
@@photojoseph Seems with 25p it will be 1/52.08 so probalby 1/52 would be fine. But no way to set this on A6600 :(
@@photojoseph using 1/50 now while shooting 25fps (seems 172.8 is really close to 1/50). I can set this SA on my bmpcc but annoying one is Sony A6600, which does not have SA or deflicker option (variable shutter like A7IV). Not sure I can do much on A6600.
I doubt that it’s impossible for find a shutter angle that doesn’t flicker. Are they Hue, by chance? Try 172.8°
Very helpful. But there at least 1 but. In most cases you have to use higher SS, then normally. So you need higher ISO. Not much but in some cases ~0.66 EV.
Well sure, if you change exposure you have to compensate somewhere. A little noise is 1,000x better than flicker though!
I have done all of these but when I shoot inside of the cruise ship.. some of their light still flickering..even I use var shutter.. I don’t know why
@@photojoseph I use a7iv with variable shutter.. but like you said maybe there inconsistent power.. because sometimes it works sometimes not.. it worse when using Sony a7siii..
On a cruise ship… that’s interesting as their power obviously isn’t coming from the grid. It’s not batteries; it’s generators, right? I wonder if there’s an inconsistent power cycle because of that? Does your camera have syncroscan, where you can dial in the shutter angle to the single degree? I’d do that, just rolling the dial until you find a shutter angle that doesn’t flicker and being aware you may need to adjust as you shoot. Also remember it’s easiest to see the flicker if the camera is out of focus. Point at a light, manually focus so it’s soft, and adjust!
Awesome explanation! What kind of LEDs would you (or anyone reading this) to use in a small room to record a hobby? I put up 2 shop light leds and I get nothing but banding with my GoPro hero 11 in time lapse mode. I can fix it in normal recording (fps 30 shutter speed 120) but I would like to avoid banding all together
You need real camera lighting, not shop lighting. Aputure and Nanlite are my favorites.
Thankyou
Totally subscribed to your channel! Thank you so much for all the valuable info. I've been trying to shoot at 30, but again, the flickering. I just selected 216 shutter angle and flicker went away! Thank you
@@topicruben Thank you for the information, I am going to check it.
@@动漫区漫哥 Just to give you one example; check the movie "Save The Private Ryan" and how they made the shooting scene!
You are totally wrong, in hollywood filmming, shutter angle should be locked in 180.
Hey Joseph! Thank you for this great explenation. These graphs really helped me to understand this flicker thing.

Me and my friend are shooting on analog film. Our camera - Bolex H16 non reflex - has fixed 24 fps setting but we live in Europe (50 hz). Which is problematic - we get flicker. It's non reflex camera, means shutter angle is fixed too.

In order to set our camera to shoot 25fps , we bought techometer to measure FPS. The tachometer shows 24.5fps or sometimes 25.5.

Question is: how much flicker (if any) we could get if this happens?

It would be awesome if you could help on this topic.
I dont care about video, i want to remove it from photo.
@@photojoseph Well, i already found remedy, but its to late for photos taken. In Europe i have to use 1/50 or 1/100 shutter speed, other speeds will not help - on live view, camera detects flicker but only when using it "normally" with viewfinder.
Some LUMIX cameras have a flicker mode for still photos. It times the exposures so they are in sync with the lights when using electronic shutter.
All of your stuff doesnt make sense... I got always the strobe effect while filming in 50 or 60fps with 100 / 125 shutter speed...
So well explained! Thank you!
You’re welcome! I love how many people have found this useful!
I truly needed this ! thank you
Sweet! You’re welcome!
Thanks for this video Joseph. It was helpful. I'm designing an old style telecine box to convert 8mm movies to digital through a first surface mirror and back projection. My big worry (and what would stop me getting out the saw) is that I'll either get flicker or slow moving bands caused by beat frequency oscillation that I won't be able to remove just by choosing the correct settings. If the projector isn't perfectly constant at 16fps then the two systems will drift out of sync. Any suggestions as to a strategy? Should I go for a high multiple of 16 or long shutter speed? I know this was almost impossible to tackle in analogue videos cameras.

[Before anyone comments: Yes I know I should ideally scan them frame at a time but I don't want to 1) Buy a Wolverine Scanner as I don't like the results for the money. 2) Pay someone else as it would cost more than a Wolverine for the first batch and I'm planning on making more. 3) The results only have to be good-enough. 4) I like tinkering and have the components to hand - maybe one day I'll build a frame by frame scanner but not yet].
@@photojoseph Thanks for advice. The problem has solved itself. The bulb on my projector blew and there was a good deal on a cheap frame by frame scanner in Amazon Warehouse. It will arrive today. I'll see if I can tweak the results to my liking in post. I've been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century!
Wow that’s quite a project. And LOL at your “before anyone comments” as that’s exactly what I was going to say! 😂 The big problem I see is “what if the film frame changes during that video frame’s exposure”, which could come down to just luck; keep shooting until you’re lucky enough to start them together. The second problem is frame rate — 16 isn’t in any digital cameras. However if you shoot at 48fps (possible in cameras like the S1H and GH6, I believe — the more cine oriented cameras) then at least that’s an even divisor of 16, so you won’t have drift (48/16=3). So, yeah… 48fps and fingers crossed!
how do i fix this tho i recently got a light to improve my webcam footage but its making very bad blue lines racing up my screen
Can’t fix that with a webcam. You need a different light. Sounds like a junk light, sorry.
You silved my Problem. Europe has a 50 hertz current grid. i changed mxý fujifilm to 50 p framerate. Done. thxxxxx
Woohoo!
wow very interesting! keep it up i love the video very informative! excellent teacher!
What this video says to me: "Shoot 30fps on auto" haha😟
lol
WHAT
This video is amazing. Thank you so much!
Thank you for the explanation it was really helpful video 👍 since i live in a country using 50 hertz AC power… every time i get flicker when i shoot above 50 fps
Hopefully now you know how to correct it!
I just gained 10 extra IQ points even though I have no idea the maths as he talks too fast to catch up.
Very helpful - thanks!
On the gh5s recorded external on atomos ninja v+ 4k60 prores raw set at 180 angle flickers in my home under ac lighting. Set to 216 does not flicker. What does that do to my video breaking the 180 rule as a set rate for ac lighting? Thanks
@@DroseMr ahhhh philips hue. That explains it. European made and flicker on US electrical system. Notorious for this. So annoying. 173d shutter will also remove it and is closer to 180d.
Believe led . Phillips Hue can bulbs . You can change color and temp. InterestingThanks for askin
What kind of lighting is your overhead? Fluorescent? CFL? LED?
@@photojoseph yessir
You’re in North America?
Great video, I learned a ton...but something I may have misunderstood. I shoot my videos in my workshop which has LED tubes on the ceiling and I bring in my own LED lights for additional lighting. I'm in the US and bulbs themselves say 50/60hz which I assume means in the US they are 60hz, in Europe they're 50hz. I just started shooting 4k where I'm now noticing some rolling banding. I used 23.976fps and 1/50 and got the banding. If I understand this correctly if I shoot 30fps, it really doesn't matter what the shutter is but I won't get banding. OR if I shoot 23.976fps I should be using 1/40 shutter speed, not 1/50. With all that being said, it seems the sweet spot for me would be 30fps (actually 29.976) and 1/60th shutter? Is that correct? Now i'm off to figure out how to remove the banding in post from the last tutorial I shot
@@dellsdiy not familiar enough with that camera but one would think it’s accurate. (BTW the framerate is 29.97 or 23.976, but not 29.976). What are the lights?
@@photojoseph Sony a6400, 1/60, 29.976, 4k...maybe because of the 8 bit camera? not sure
@@dellsdiy hmm, so your lights must be causing it. Or; what camera? Hard to imagine but I wonder if the shutter speed is slightly off.
@@photojoseph What's interesting is I'm still getting very subtle banding when shooting 29.97 and 1/60 (USA). I can't see it much when watching at normal speed but if I speed up a clip, which I do often, you can definitely see the rolling banding.
You got it. You could stay at 23.976 and go to 1/60 and that should work, or as you said do both and go 29.97 and 1/60.
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