Recently, I notice NEFs in AP (3.4.2) displaying colors deeper or richer than those displayed in LR4. Using same monitor and settings. If I bring down the saturation or vibrancy then the photo looses its punch. Do you have any idea why or what this is? I have seen a few other posts on other forums mentioning the same. But I am not using AP because of this, probably will migrate permanently over to LR at this point. And I notice since using LR I can bring out more details in my NEFs in LR than AP. I have contacted Apple but they have not found a reason to the issue. One suspects it could be my video card in my MP (2 yrs old) since 10.8.
All RAW. A dark blue in LR, will register like a velvet blue in AP.
Hi,
I recently acquired a Nikon D600, and started to process RAW with Aperture (v3.4.3, Digital Camera RAW 4.03). All this process is new to me, as I was previously shooting with a Nikon D80 in JPEG.
However, I quickly observed a color matching issue as here described. All pictures are captured on the D600 in RAW+JPEG. Some pictures present unrealistic colors, while I fully agree with the differences each proprietary RAW engine may produce. But my problem is not so much the gap between RAW and JPEG, from the color perspective. The issue is the way Aperture renders some colours, apparently in some specific lightning conditions. Here, most pictures present a strong saturation and color boost in the Pink/Magenta region. You can have a look by yourself at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xu8nsq7fkde5yrk/Screen%20Shot%202012-12-27%20a…
This picture is a screen shot of Aperture in Full Screen, showing the NEF on the left, JPEG on the right.
The JPEG is close to reality, while the RAW background looks Magenta with some impact on the skin too. I also noticed that Aperture returns different temperatures for both images:
JPEG: Temp 5000 K, Tint 0
NEF: Temp 3097 K, Tint 7
The RAW fine tuning box is by default putting Boost to a max (1,00) and Hue Boost to 0,50. Decreasing those parameters reduces the saturation, but does not remove the Magenta cast. There’s no easy way to remove it with the proposed tools, impacting the entire picture.
The same colors are rendered using Preview, Quicklook.
Raw Photo Processor (RPP) produces a non saturated picture, still a bit pinky.
ViewNX2 produces an image 99,9% similar to the JPEG colours, which are close to reality.
Which seems to confirm that only Nikon knows how to read at the sensor info, while others may still have to do some reverse engineering.
As such, I currently shoot in RAW+JPEG, and picks the one I prefer. But I’d like Apple to improve its RAW engine on such new cameras.
Does anyone knows how to avoid such color shift?
Regards,
F
Im going to assume you are calibrating your monitor monthly so we can avoid that issue. Between the two very good products LR & AP there is no such thing as “using the same settings”. Each program has there Idea of raw converter algorithms and then their own slider algorithms in cubers, vib, levels, etc. If you like the way AP handles the library or data base better than LR then adjust the Raw Fine Tuning preset to adjust your nefs while importing. Ive done a lot of testing in the past and wish I had just done more shooting and key wording. Testing is fun though maybe cause something loses and something wins. But the tests are dependent on the type of image and style of shooting of the photographer. Good luck on choosing one program over the other, you’ll be glad when that decision is over and you don’t have to concern your self with it anymore.
ps hopefully if there is an issue (I have seen one ) with color handling in weird lighting that again, hopefully, AP will address it soon. Did you send apple an example??
davidbmoore@mac.com
Twitter= @davidbmoore
Scottsdale AZ
That was something I noticed when after using Canon for many years I bought a Nikon D800 I found that using the latest version of ACR with these files brought out so much more dynamic range.
I am in a quandary at the moment as my Aperture library is 4 years big and I’ve no intention on giving it up but I am using LR4 for my NEF raw files and Aperture for Canon/Fuji/Sony raw’s.
I think my best solution is to convert my managed Ap3 library to referenced and use it for all files and then if I want to edit a NEF in LR I can just open it and pick out the file from there. I tested this yesterday and both programs will work at the same time with the same file (albeit the adjustments don’t show in either) altho the Aperture star rating show in LR but flags don’t.
kiss,
As implied here, there are differences in conversions between the two apps and neither will ever be identical. It’s like two chefs making the same dish from the same ingredients, except that all ingredients other than the main one come from a different place. There’s simply no way they will be the same.
“Better” is of course subjective, but at this point all that matters is what you like. If you like Lr’s interpretation better, then you like that better.
Personally I’d dig into the RAW Fine Tuning in Aperture to see if you can coax what you want out of the image, then save that as a new default for that camera. If you can’t, try tweaking the adjustments and coming up with a base recipe, then apply that on import.
@PhotoJoseph
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I appreciate the comments. First let me say that I understand what you all wrote. Next let me elaborate as I think I might have been misunderstood. With the same image, AP is way off. Using D4 or D800 NEFs, LR and CNX2 are almost spot on with respect to the depth of the color and DR. AP is way off the mark. I cannot change the RAW Fine Tuning in AP with respect to the over saturation w/o flattening out the image (and all others that may not need such adj). This is an issue with AP since 10.8. I do not get the over saturation using ACR, Camera Portrait, etc. And I do not get the over saturation in CNX2 whether employing the Standard, Portrait or even Vivid native settings as I do in AP. I should not have to adjust RAW Fine Tuning in AP for all my NEFs. Something is eschewed in AP, and it is not just my screen, it is on another computer of mine using AP. I have a 30” NEC MultiSync screen and the over saturation is not present on the other programs. For some reason AP is compensating for loss of DR in the NEFs w over compensation. I will add, I find it in Preview no matter the source are also over saturated. That is why I think it may be an Apple issue using some screens like mine with ProPhoto gamuts and/or video cards. And let me finish by saying that I am upset at Apple Aperture Support for not getting back to follow up on the issue, telling me they are checking into the issue, as I had sent them samples, and they were aware of similar posts. This is why I am not sold on AP as the community w LR is so much greater with better access to support. That’s why I turned to you nice people that offered some comments. Thanks.
I have seen one other image made with a Panasonic camera on a dance floor of a wedding. LR handled that one better also. Please send apple a image so they can compare first hand themselves . this is a bug in their system color since its happening in Preview as well. They have some work to do in that area and others.
Good luck
David
davidbmoore@mac.com
Twitter= @davidbmoore
Scottsdale AZ
kiss,
Are you saying you see this unnatural saturation in all NEF files, or just those in the recent D4 and D800 camera?
Bob
Bob
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Bob Rockefeller
Midway, GA
www.bobrockefeller.com
Hi,
Same problem, specialy on portrait shots with D600 NEF files. No issue with EOS 5D MK2.
Did anyone found a solution?
Thanks in advance.
RC
I can not process any RAW of D600 on AP 3.2.3, while the Digital Camera RAW on my Mac is alrady 4.0.3, so what must I do?
So far I have to convert the RAW thru Nikon’s View NX2, but is it because AP 3.2.3 can not work with RAW Converter 4.0.3 ?
Thanks for any help as I had used D700’s RAW/ NEF satisfactorily before….
Dave Dupre,
Sanity Check here …
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oawyik0tyozip6y/D600.jpg
This is a screen grab of Aperture displaying a D600 file, (not mine), next to a JPEG imported from ACR latest using default settings.
The only adjustments to the Aperture decode are slight tweaks to the Exposure Settings - no adjustments are made to RAW Fine tuning.
Whilst the pictures are still slightly different I couldn’t characterize one as better than the other - If anything the Aperture vers has slightly more detail in the blacks and here’s why …
The default Exposure settings for this camera set Black Point to 5.0 which IMO is way too aggressive for this file - I set it back too 0.0, (as I do for most of my images as a baseline adjustment) which immediately recovered a ton of detail that was otherwise clipped and could not be recovered using any of the RAW fine tuning adjustments.
Could you check your Exposure settings and make sure the Black Point slider is not clipping detail for you ?
I’d invite anyone else complaining of Aperture “losing” detail compared too ACR or other’s to do the same or provide links to the original NEF’s either here or to Apple so that we can better evaluate what the problem is.
---
Andrew Mumford
Paul - you may want to update Aperture … the current version is 3.4.3 …
I recently upgraded from a D7000 to a D600, and I’m not pleased with the RAW processing of most of my images. Everything is far darker than any other RAW processor I try. The worst part is that AP is crushing all detail in the shadows, and no amount of settings will get it back. This is not a problem when using Nikon’s NEF processor (shadow detail is there).
It’s funny because I can watch it happen. Everything looks great when I first import my images. I’m guessing this is because AP is using the JPG preview in the NEF file. However, as soon as I click on the image, AP says “Loading…”. Once complete, the image darkens considerably, and all my shadow detail is GONE. Again, this does not happen with the Nikon software. The difference is huge!
Same problem here with a Canon D40.
Compared to the Jpeg, the Raw version after conversion is more saturated and less contrasted. And with deep pink and blue I get artifacts: they are much more saturated that jpeg and originals and this cannot be twisted easily in Aperture settings (certainly not with the RAW import settings). Same problem with Preview, but not with Digital Photo Professional from Canon, nor with Photoshop + Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw.
So I suspect it is Apple Raw converter which is weak.
For normal pics, this is Ok, but for deep blue and pink/magenta: it is way off.