Dear all, any experience re KW in Capture One? I really miss the Aperture KW hierarchical lists. Did you find a way to re-create something similar in Capture One? I only got there a flat list of the KW in the imported images, but no way to import KW lists as in LR. Tx
Keywording is rudimentary at best in C1. Don’t expect anything close to what you had in Aperture or would have in LR.
The way Keywords are assigned to pictures and the way they are handled as metadata is mindblowingly stupid, there is no other way to describe it. You can’t, for example, select multiple images in the browser, type in a keyword and expect this to be assigned to all. It will only be assigned to the first one. You have to actually copy+paste it to the others. They way to assign a keyword to more than one picture is to drag+drop them all on the keyword in the filter area. This is of course a recipe for desaster if something goes wrong (you accidentally drop them in a folder or whatever) and this requires that the keyword is already there in the filter list. You can’t do this with NEW keywords.
And the icing on the cake is, that keywords are not part of the database. They are stored in a .txt preferences file, which you’ll have to edit to get rid of unused keywords.
TL,DR: Keywording in C1 sucks.
MikeA: -I agree with your assessment. Where did you find the .txt file with the keywords? I’d like to edit it but I can’t find it.
Thanks
Paul C
Tanks, indeed basics…
Mike,
“The way Keywords are assigned to pictures and the way they are handled as metadata is mindblowingly stupid, there is no other way to describe it.” This appears to be true!
But, you can in fact apply a keyword to multiple images:
First - Select say 5 images.
Bring up the keyword panel.
Type in a new keyword (if it is already there, it will pop up).
Click on the two ended diagonal arrow thingy (next to the ? at the top of the keyword panel. This puts it in a cache.
The cache panel opens with a button to Apply.
So far I have not found a way to batch remove a keyword. The process needs improvement!
Capture One Pro Trial 8.1.1
Bill Booth
Yes, what you are describing is the copy+paste I was talking about. It is essentially the same as lift+stamp in Aperture.
“The process needs improvement” is one of the biggest understatements I have read about this so far ;-)
We should all flood Phase Ones inbox until its fixed.
The best thing to do is to submit a feature request through opening a support ticket. I did some months ago. The more people that ask for a feature the higher it moves up the ‘to do’ list.
Andrew Macnaughton
If I select multiple images that all require the same set of kw then if I set one image to have the necessary kw and then hold Alt + shift (windows keyboard) and click on the double headed arrow I find that all selected images now have all kw applied to first image.
Just a different way of looking at it. In A3 I would select multiple images and drag and drop the necessary kw I wanted - in CPO to populate the kw box top left and then hold alt+shift and click on double headed arrow. Same result different process - or am I missing something.
Dragging the images onto the KW is working for me.
Something else you can do is add (hierarchical) keywords in the Library tool tab. E.g. “first level>second level>third level” (you do have to type the whole hierarchy) and then drag images to the keyword directly from the browser.
Unfortunately you can’t easily remove keywords in the same way, which is a feature request I have made.
Andrew Macnaughton
Right - KW in COP8.2 is primitive and almost dysfunctional. I have submitted a request to technical support to provide batch delete keywords and it has been submitted to the development boys (for what that’s worth). Also, they should be badgered to upgrade KW functionality to a much more useful interface.
Tom Carroll
www.tomcarrollphotography.com
The more people who do this, the higher up the ‘to do’ list it’ll be.
Andrew Macnaughton
I downloaded a trial of capture one, and at first glance it looks very good for image editing. However the key wording is useless to me and the search capabilities are very poor.
Unless I am missing something it appears that each collection has its own keyword list which can’t be shared. Very useful for someone who shoots air shows and want to be able to find that photo of a spitfire mk9 taken at …. Which show?
Not for me unfortunately as I mostly used a3 as a database.
What do you mean with “each collection”? You can definitely search for keywords across your catalog (which is the equivalent to Apertures library), no matter in which collection an image sits.
In the “Library” tab there is a section called “Filters” below the Folders and Collections. There is a “Show/Hide Filter” menu item if you click on the three dots right next to the question mark in the header. Activate the keywords section and you can actually see a flat list (with counters) of all the keywords in your catalog (if you have “All Images” activated above).
Capture One will show the relevant keywords for any particular collection. Look at all images and you will see all your keywords and can search on any combination of them,
Andrew Macnaughton
I’ve had another look and can find the keywords, what I can’t work out is how to batch change them…
According to the help pages, select the images, and enter the keywords into the floating window for metadata. When I do this it only applies the change to the first image.
Although I can reorder the keywords it doesn’t seem to dynamically change them on the images. This seems to agree with the posts above.
I might persevere with this or end up looking at Lightroom instead, whose keywords work dynamically even though the UI is a horrible mess…
You can batch add keywords is COP8 by dragging selected images to the keyword of choice in the Filters tool. Adding a keyword this way will simply batch add the keyword without changing, or clobbering, previous keywords on the image. That’s the good news. Now the bad news. You cannot batch delete a specific keyword from multiple images. Keywords must be deleted individually in the keyword tool — and that is huge bad news. Hope they get it sorted out soon.
Tom Carroll
www.tomcarrollphotography.com
I am just reading the forum before making the transition, have not installed the C1 yet.
But maybe the following could be of interested for those struggling with Keywords:
http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=18683&sid=a90381d02da0…
Jan Wessel
I am new to C1, so in talking to the sales rep in Toronto, I mentioned some of the concerns with Keywording. If you like folder trees and “Tokens”, you will love this. Seems the best thing to do is stop comparing to beloved Aperture and figure out what will work tomorrow and the next day. http://blog.phaseone.com/how-to-automate-your-workflow-with-tokens/?utm_…
Bill Booth
Bill…yes this is potentially a very useful feature. It’s been around in PhotoMechanic for as long as I can remember, and back in my PhotoMechanic days ( a long time ago) I used it extensively.
However, I don’t see any connection to the keyboarding issues that have been brought up in this discussion. For example, how could this be used to batch remove a keyword from a selection of images? Or easily add keywords to a selection of images without using the inefficient copy and paste approach?
Did the sales rep specifically address keywording, and if so, what was stated?
Thanks.
Jim … The rep deals mainly with high end users i.e.. photographers that use PhaseOne hardware to produce product catalogs and high gloss magazine inserts. He contends that this group is not a big user of KW in the first place, if I understood correctly. In any case, he did say that Head office in Copenhagen was very receptive to fixing issues and considering upgrades to the program.
Meantime, we will have to figure out how to make our personal workflow function with the least hassle. For example, do I put all my “flower shots” in a flower folder, then sort them on date, or is Date the key, then sub flowers etc. Experimentation will be worth the effort in the long run. Keep in mind, you could put one flower image in several albums - blue, spring, 2015, perennials, while having only one image on disk. C1 is really only a database keeping track of the location of and adjustments to the image files.
Sorry if it sounds like I am pushing C1, but I am excited about moving forward with the program that seems to fit my needs and produces good results. ( and getting my $300 worth of value! ouch!)
Bill Booth
Thanks for the info. I’m kinda surprised that the rep indicated a low use of keywords, though. Regardless, it sounds like you are considering a folder/album approach to replace or supplement keywords. Kudos for thinking outside the box. Unfortunately, that won’t work for me (and I suspect many others) since keywords are a vital part of my workflow and DAM… folders/albums just won’t cut it as a replacement. I hope C1 addresses their keywording deficiencies.
Well, this makes a lot of sense and I think many of C1’s current deficiencies can be attributed to their heritage as a RAW conversion tool for high end Phase One/Hasselblad digital backs, shooting in a controlled studio environment. That’s why, for example, noise reduction is just “ok” and not as amazing as some of the other tools. There’s just not a lot of noise when you shoot with that kind of hardware and a whole bunch of lights.
But I’m very positive that Phase One sees a market opportunity right now and is really willing to step up their game and complete the C1 package in terms of functionality. We should all continue to send in feature requests, while at the same time maybe recognising that things do not need to be done like the last years with Aperture, sometimes a fresh new approach also kind of makes sense for many of us.
It’s not a “fresh new approach” though, it’s a half-baked integration of near-20 year old functionality from MediaPro. With a lot left out, for example bulk deletion, or visual flagging of which organisational elements (catalog, keyword, folder etc) an image belongs to.
A lot is badly thought out - for example, fine, have “keywords” under “FILTERS” and a separate keyword panel. But why then allow you to assign (but not remove) keywords using the FILTERS section ? There are workarounds, but it should not be necessary for so many to be needed.
Above in this thread, I mentioned that I submitted a request to Phase One technical support to enhance the keywording process and interface. One giant step forward would be for Phase One to develop the functionality to batch delete specific keywords – can’t be done now. Again, I urge you to submit a request to technical support to enhance keyword functionality. I received a reply saying that they forwarded the request to the development boys. If keywording is to be enhanced, they need to receive a blizzard of requests. To make it easier for you to submit said request, here is the tech support web site:
http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain/ContactSupport.aspx
Thanks, TC
Tom Carroll
www.tomcarrollphotography.com
That moment you realise, that the new “Photos” app has a better keyword management than $250 Capture One Pro in its 8th version since birth……arghh.