ProRes RAW; Explained, Demonstrated, Discussed… and the Future?
Photo Moment - April 25, 2018
ProRes RAW was one of the biggest announcements at NAB. But what does it mean, and what can you do with it? Let's have a look at some actual ProRes RAW footage and see what it can do.
Products Mentioned In Today's Photo Moment
- Final Cut Pro X — Get Yours Here
- Atomos Shogun Inferno — Get Yours Here
- Atomos Ninja Inferno — Get Yours Here
Videos Mentioned In Today's Photo Moment
Fyi, I tested several dozen HDMI cables. The ones labeled "Monoprice 18gbs" all work. The Amazon basics "highspeed with ethernet" work. Between atomos and GH5 at 4k60.10bit.
I know Im randomly asking but does anybody know of a tool to log back into an instagram account?
I stupidly forgot the account password. I would love any assistance you can offer me
I stupidly forgot the account password. I would love any assistance you can offer me
It appears cameras don't record Raw because Red has a patent on compressed raw in Camera. Blackmagic does it in camera but is supposed to do some demosaicing in camera or other modified processing before compression.
I can't edit 4K h264 video on my PC but I can edit 6K Prores RAW video👍
Is prores raw lossless in every compression ratio option?
my prores files are grayed out and cant be imported. only prores. I have the wide gamut enabled as you stated.
The Important Question is, is it as good as Cinema DNG? Or is it as blurry as B-RAW. The ONLY way to really! know is to shoot a Resolution Chart and Blow it up 3 o4 400% Next to Cinema DNG.
@@photojoseph
Someone Else Did. i just can't find the video. i was in shock! When i saw how much more sharpness & detail there was in the Cinema DNG. And i cant stand! All those still files you need to make a video. i never used Cinema DNG and NEVER! will. i only shoot ProRez HQ.
EXAMPLE.
https://youtu.be/N9ZspkcW0Nk
Someone Else Did. i just can't find the video. i was in shock! When i saw how much more sharpness & detail there was in the Cinema DNG. And i cant stand! All those still files you need to make a video. i never used Cinema DNG and NEVER! will. i only shoot ProRez HQ.
EXAMPLE.
https://youtu.be/N9ZspkcW0Nk
Once you’ve done that, let us know!
I noticed prores hq capture from hdmi produces pixels in blacks that I remove with denoise in davanci resolve 15 studio. But h264 mpg is smoother in camera. Thanks for explaining this why noise appears in 440mbyte sec capture
Nikon's Z6 with an HDMI output will send 12 bit Prores RAW on the Atomos Ninja V as explained by Nikon to media in the next few months. Why this matters is the fact that the Z6 captures raw on all of the Full Frame sensor WITHOUT CROP. This is a kin to the Monstro Camera.
if only you´d talk a tiny bit slower...I am sure you would get a lot more subscribers. Your training at Lynda.com is superb. You speak with control and your contents are well chosen and explained. However, here in YouTube you relax and talk like a native american who seems not to care about the rest of the people, like me, who speaks and understand English, but needs a little time to understand. Just a suggestion-critique. Thanks for your videos. I always learn a lot from them, but may be just half of what I would like to.
Hello! I have a great doubt and I would like to know what will be the best movement.
I have the Sony FS5 MK1 plus some Sony FE and Zeiss lenses, also the Sony a7iii and the sony a7rii, and the small a6300.
For my usual work, the equipment is sufficient. But I would like to have the opportunity to provide raw quality for specific projects, documentaries, video clips and even movies.
My initial intention was to acquire the RAW license for FS5. Buy Atomos Shogun inferno and SDI cable, 2 SSD and batteries.
The cost is about 2200 €.
Seeing the new blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4k I also consider this option to save weight and structure.
Which would be the best option?
I have the Sony FS5 MK1 plus some Sony FE and Zeiss lenses, also the Sony a7iii and the sony a7rii, and the small a6300.
For my usual work, the equipment is sufficient. But I would like to have the opportunity to provide raw quality for specific projects, documentaries, video clips and even movies.
My initial intention was to acquire the RAW license for FS5. Buy Atomos Shogun inferno and SDI cable, 2 SSD and batteries.
The cost is about 2200 €.
Seeing the new blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4k I also consider this option to save weight and structure.
Which would be the best option?
Those are very, very different cameras. I think you need to rent the BMD camera when it’s available and try it out for yourself.
Ha ha, I love the off-the-cuff honesty. Sometimes, it takes me a while before I understand something technical - and the market moves fast
I'm trying to work out whether Arri Alexa Mini format work on a Windows 10 machine with Avid Media Composer
It doesn't look very promising at the moment
I'm trying to work out whether Arri Alexa Mini format work on a Windows 10 machine with Avid Media Composer
It doesn't look very promising at the moment
i can recording in pro res raw whit lumix gh5 and atomo inferno?
ok i have lumix g7 i cant doing it
No. If you watch the video this is all explained.
they need another term , and quit misleading the people , marketing to sell what reall isnt??. !!, ( I will lower taxes)!!..like reality shows, BS!!!, reality shows would mean unedited... .. SMH...call it something else..
Hi, thx a lot for this video :) Do u have any idea about denoise the ProRes Raw footage in FCPX? :)
Any denoise plug-in should work. Nothing unique here.
you had me subscribed as early as 2:50.
Does the Ursa Mini line shoot uncompressed RAW ?
There are many compression algorithms that claim to be “lossless”. That’s not the same as uncompressed. I’m not familiar enough with the Ursa to know what it does.
I don’t think so. Almost nothing shoots uncompressed RAW.
Actually, it is interesting, when it will be possible to use ProRes RAW on a windows machine. Or Apple plans to force cinematographers buy their expensive editing gear?
PhotoJoseph I wont buy a mac, because I dont want to. I do not speak of software
Final Cut Pro X is expensive?! It’s $299. That’s only six months of Adobe Premiere. My Mac is five years old and still handles ProRes RAW just fine.
Joseph! Thanks for this video bud! Quick question, what software and platform are you using to switch back and forth from camera to your computer and also the picture and picture shots? I am interested in implementing a similar layout for the iFilmmaker Podcast.
Is the SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC 128GB 95MB/s V30 U3 ... good enough for ProRes Raw (not HQ)?
Actually it won’t. They shoot DNGRaw. I mean maybe they will add that if the customer demands it but also they would have to coordinate with Apple on that. Not sure if that will happen.
Oh damn Those are some huge numbers. I'll be buying some extra drives to store that schtuff once I get the new BM Pocket cinema 4k (It'll probably have ProresRaw )
I’m going to guess NO since V30 is 300Mbps and ProRes RAW is, I believe, around 800 at 4K.
Great video, but what's the point of RAW if there's no demosaicing/debayering involved? Or is it just doing it in the background? At any rate, I thought the definition of RAW was that you can remap the color interpretation, thus providing a superior white balance.
PhotoJoseph Nice! Keep up the good work!
The debayering happens in software. And yes you can adjust WB without degradation.
Welcome to the future gentlemen ...
Thank u for the demo and info sir👏🏾
Thank u for the demo and info sir👏🏾
Hi Joseph, so how do you clean up the noise in the properly exposed clip, like would you use "neatvideo" software? Thanks.
The rates thats ProRes Raw is using makes it seem like the GH5s could get updated to record out of the USB-C at least. (Like the pocket cinema 4k with raw)
Great demo here, Joseph. This is the best early ProRes Raw demo I've seen. Keep it up!
Very fascinating. Perfect Joseph, great explanation. I know the Ninja 5 will do RAW when it gets released, but I hope Atomos do firmware updates to allow the Shogun and Ninja Inferno's to do RAW.
Atomos CEO said Shogun and Inferno will also have raw support. So don't worry
Thank you for doing this, there is a dearth of actual ProRes Raw tests out there.
However, I think the demonstration of highlight retention here is more than a bit misleading. Most recent Sony video cameras that shoot S-log have high noise in the shadows and some exposure leeway in the highlights – so everyone shoots S-log overexposed a stop or two REGARDLESS of recording codec (yes, the 8-bit codecs on the A7 line struggle with this method, but not really with highlight clipping, but more banding and color fidelity).
What's also misleading, is that you are viewing the Raw-to-S-log and then S-log-to-rec709 image as you grade. If you were viewing the s-log, it would be plain to see that the "overexposed" shots are correctly exposed for this camera system (or fairly close), while the two ladies in the park shot is actually underexposed. Those standard, automatic rec709 conversion LUT's in FCPX ALWAYS look awful when you have correctly exposed log footage of any kind. This has been my experience with C300 footage, Sony footage and Alexa footage.
The "amazing" highlight retention here is mostly a trick of how the footage was incorrectly displayed to begin with.
A real test of the capabilities of ProRes Raw would have to include the same shots/scenes shot in:
- The camera's native codec
- ProRes (either natively or through a recorder)
- ProRes RAW
- (A Raw-to-ProRes recording could also be informative)
And then you compare how the SAME camera sensor at the SAME settings watching the SAME thing retains dynamic range and color-fidelity with different acquisition formats.
The fact is that it can be very hard to see a difference between a ProRes 4444 recording and an Uncompressed ARRI-Raw recording – or so Roger Deakins found out in his testing. 10 or 12-bit LOG recording is a very powerful tool, and I think the ProRes Raw benefit over that is going to be very marginal in most cases.
However, I think the demonstration of highlight retention here is more than a bit misleading. Most recent Sony video cameras that shoot S-log have high noise in the shadows and some exposure leeway in the highlights – so everyone shoots S-log overexposed a stop or two REGARDLESS of recording codec (yes, the 8-bit codecs on the A7 line struggle with this method, but not really with highlight clipping, but more banding and color fidelity).
What's also misleading, is that you are viewing the Raw-to-S-log and then S-log-to-rec709 image as you grade. If you were viewing the s-log, it would be plain to see that the "overexposed" shots are correctly exposed for this camera system (or fairly close), while the two ladies in the park shot is actually underexposed. Those standard, automatic rec709 conversion LUT's in FCPX ALWAYS look awful when you have correctly exposed log footage of any kind. This has been my experience with C300 footage, Sony footage and Alexa footage.
The "amazing" highlight retention here is mostly a trick of how the footage was incorrectly displayed to begin with.
A real test of the capabilities of ProRes Raw would have to include the same shots/scenes shot in:
- The camera's native codec
- ProRes (either natively or through a recorder)
- ProRes RAW
- (A Raw-to-ProRes recording could also be informative)
And then you compare how the SAME camera sensor at the SAME settings watching the SAME thing retains dynamic range and color-fidelity with different acquisition formats.
The fact is that it can be very hard to see a difference between a ProRes 4444 recording and an Uncompressed ARRI-Raw recording – or so Roger Deakins found out in his testing. 10 or 12-bit LOG recording is a very powerful tool, and I think the ProRes Raw benefit over that is going to be very marginal in most cases.
Great demo, especially with the lack of sample footage available right now. That highlight recovery is amazing!
Has anyone found links to good sample footage?
Has anyone found links to good sample footage?
That would be great! I’ll definitely be sharing this with my FCP folks!
Thanks! Actually I’ll ask I can provide those clips for download. It certainly is impressive. Please share the video far and wide!
I have the same issue when I turn off the conversion it goes back to what it looks like in import, just a bad look. I don't know why that is happening either. I wonder if they (Apple) are aware. I too am using the Sony FS5 for my ProRes RAW
It’s almost like the raw footage is the same as the RAW->Log LUT + Log->Normal LUT. It is odd. But we’re also looking at it on an SDR screen. Do you have an HDR monitoring setup?
The Inspire 2 records to an SSD in order to do ProRes or RAW or ProRes RAW, but I guess you could call it internally, just not the the micro-SD card that is also on the Inspire2. I have been very happy with ProRes RAW, LT saves a lot of space compared to HQ but still more than regular ProRes 422. Great video and thank you for posting it.
Cell1969 how can you change ISO after shooting? Isn’t that just increasing exposure in post with the terminology of the camera, or are you saying in RAW you can brighten underexposed footage a lot cleaner than you could with ProRes RAW?
Having been working with the X5R and now the X5S exclusively in Cinema DNG, and all the increased workflow that entails, I’m silly super excited for PRAW as I like to call it 😬 As far as I know the main difference between DNG raw and PRAW is there’s no ability to change ISO and WB, that’s the baked in part of the video file. Great video Joseph.
Awesome thanks. I didn’t know the Inspire had a place for an SSD drive. That’s awesome.
Thanks for the video, great - as always.
YouTube Note: Maybe something my end, but. I didn't get a notification, my home page didn't offer your video immediately afterwards. Basically it got a very low profile. Thought I would mention it in case some settings were changed that have effected your visibility. I think your videos deserve many more views and sub's.
YouTube Note: Maybe something my end, but. I didn't get a notification, my home page didn't offer your video immediately afterwards. Basically it got a very low profile. Thought I would mention it in case some settings were changed that have effected your visibility. I think your videos deserve many more views and sub's.
YouTube doesn’t notify every time. So insanely frustrating. (I assume you have tapped the bell for notifications?).
Thanks for this, really cool. I would've loved to see something similar with shadows if shot underexposed, does it actually make cameras better in low light?
Also I see people claim it isn't 'real' RAW because you can't change colour temperature and ISO in post... presumably this is because the UI they are used to makes it appear they are doing what you are essentially doing here with exposure and colour balance sliders in FCPX?
Also I see people claim it isn't 'real' RAW because you can't change colour temperature and ISO in post... presumably this is because the UI they are used to makes it appear they are doing what you are essentially doing here with exposure and colour balance sliders in FCPX?
PhotoJoseph Cheers, was amazing what you managed with that cathedral shot, appreciate the demo!
No, definitely not. This is why I pointed out that shooting overexposed is better with RAW.
What do you guys think? Easy to understand?
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See something on the show that you want to buy?
Head on over to kit.com/PhotoJoseph
•• Final Cut Pro X ••
iTunes - http://jal.bz/2zWLxyA
•• Atomos Shogun Inferno ••
B&H - https://bhpho.to/2FgVi9I
Amazon - https://amzn.to/2FgIsZg
Adorama - https://jal.bz/2qZd3pC
•• Atomos Ninja Inferno ••
B&H - https://bhpho.to/2otybDV
Amazon - http://amzn.to/2opnaS8
Adorama - http://jal.bz/2o73z7M
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